Hotend seperated.

[Flateric]

It appears my hotend has seperated on my very first attempt to print my first calibration cube.

Rephost said the temp was 260, it seperated at the lower part of the middle insulator, whatever this stuff is called.

Is there a fix for this or do I essentially have to buy a new hot end?

[aehM_Key]

Do you have a picture?

[Polygonhell]

It appears my hotend has seperated on my very first attempt to print my first calibration cube.

Rephost said the temp was 260, it seperated at the lower part of the middle insulator, whatever this stuff is called.

Is there a fix for this or do I essentially have to buy a new hot end?

The PEEK insulator softens at around 245, doesn't take much more than that to destroy a Hotend, a picture would help, but from your description, I think you are looking at a replacement.

[Flateric]

That's what I was afraid of, it's unfortunate that in the official build manual we are instructed to crank the hotend up to 260 the very first time ever using it to feed filiment.

Perhaps this should be changed before more "new guys" do this to their newly built printers on the very first feed of filiment ever.....

A picture won't really show much at this point because the moment I noticed the hotend at a 45 degree angle I shut down the job, straightened the hotend and attempted to hold it back into place while it cooled. Don't know why I figured that was a good idea, but what else was I to do I supposed.

Excerpt from the manual,

".......Once the hot end is in position, I want you to set the extruder temperature to 260 and click on the Heat Extruder button. The next step requires using the extruder drive, and safety interlocks prevent it from functioning if the hot end is not at operating temperature.
After the hot end is at temperature, you’re going to use the manual extruder controls to feed filament into the hot end......"

If it really does soften at 245, then this is reall really bad advice I would say.

[Eaglezsoar]

Could you provide a link to the manual that says to set the temperature to 260?

[Flateric]

Well the above is a direct quote from the "official document" thread for the pdf file, here is a link to the thread in the official document forum.

http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=987

It links you directly to this PDF file...

http://www.geneb.org/rostock-max/rostoc ... manual.pdf

And the instructions that need revision is on page 113, second paragraph down.

I've been following these instructions from page one religiously.

I just think this particular portion needs a good looking over because I can truthfully say that I followed the instructions to the very letter. And this resulted in my hotend being in 2 melted pieces and my total amount of actual filiment etruded is less than 3cm no exagerration.

Which is a real bummer, LOL, considering how long it has taken to get to this point only to have a meltdown. Sorta the ultimate buildup only to have a completely meltdown of a letdown. <<Attempt at a joke to lighten the fairly depressing situation I find myself currently in.

[Flateric]

Out of curiousity and for future reference what should I have my hotend temp at for ABS filaments? Just so I don't have a second meltdown.

I have to wonder if the meltdown would have occured if I had a fan on my hotend like I have seen on some of the other builds. It doesn't mention one as a "recommended" addon anywhere in the manual up to that point.

[Eaglezsoar]

Geneb, it looks like you should step in here. A revision to the manual may be necessary.
Page 113 does indeed ask the user to raise the temperature to 260C and I don't think any
Peek plastic can withstand that temperature without failure. As indicated by Polygonhell,
the softening stage of Peek is approximately 245C.

[Eaglezsoar]

It appears my hotend has seperated on my very first attempt to print my first calibration cube.

Rephost said the temp was 260, it seperated at the lower part of the middle insulator, whatever this stuff is called.

Is there a fix for this or do I essentially have to buy a new hot end?

I would contact Seemecnc and see if they will replace this.

[Eaglezsoar]

Out of curiousity and for future reference what should I have my hotend temp at for ABS filaments? Just so I don't have a second meltdown.

I have to wonder if the meltdown would have occured if I had a fan on my hotend like I have seen on some of the other builds. It doesn't mention one as a "recommended" addon anywhere in the manual up to that point.

The temperature for ABS will vary based on the filament, who made it and even will vary with different rolls from the same manufacturer.
Looking around the various reprap forums I have seen recommended temperatures from 210C to 265C. I personally would never exceed 240C without a fan on the Peek and even then I would go over 240C with extreme caution.
There really is not a defined temperature for ABS because of all the variables. I most certainly recommend a fan on the Peek section of the Hot End. Mhackney's build describes how he installed a 25mm fan in his build. I'm beginning
too understand why some users stay with PLA.

[geneb]

Done. I had listed 240C elsewhere, but that 260 slipped by somehow.

I've also added a notation to use 190C for PLA (this is what I've been using with good results).

I'd also verify the thermistor reading with a thermocouple probe.

g.

[Flateric]

I was verifying my temps with a little laser probe here I have. Since it was the first time I was running it hot and all, I wanted to verify I was dead on the manuals stated numbers for safety. Oh well, I suppose errors do slip through, we are only human.

I would love it if you could cut me a break on a new hotend however.

I'm using the ABS I purchased from seemecnc when I purchased the printer. I selected white and black.

[geneb]

IR probes are great for ballpark readings, but to my understanding they don't have the accuracy of a thermocouple.

I don't work for SeeMeCNC - I'm just a satisfied customer with an ugly writing habit. You'll have to discuss the hot-end replacement directly with them.

g.

[jesse]

I've been turning the hot end to 260 C for a while to get a pool of plastic going and haven't had the same problem.

Maybe there was another issue that influenced the failure?

[Eaglezsoar]

I've been turning the hot end to 260 C for a while to get a pool of plastic going and haven't had the same problem.

Maybe there was another issue that influenced the failure?

You've been extremely lucky if you are doing that without a fan. Google temperature range of Peek plastic and you should see you are in the danger zone.

[Eaglezsoar]

I was verifying my temps with a little laser probe here I have. Since it was the first time I was running it hot and all, I wanted to verify I was dead on the manuals stated numbers for safety. Oh well, I suppose errors do slip through, we are only human.

I would love it if you could cut me a break on a new hotend however.

I'm using the ABS I purchased from seemecnc when I purchased the printer. I selected white and black.

Contact [email protected]

[Flateric]

I just want to be clear here, I didn't post this to make a bitch fest....Hope I'm not coming across that way.

I really mostly want to prevent others from melting their hotends like I unfortunately did.

I have contacted them but have not heard back as of yet.

[mhackney]

I had a similar problem with a JHead hot end I bought 2 weeks ago. I wanted to configure this as a 2nd extruder on my MAX alongside the SeeMeCNC extruder. Got it installed and started the firmware configuration.

WARNING: you have to make firmware changes in several places correctly or disastrous results will ensue! Basically, I had overlooked one configuration. When I went to test the hot end, the thermistor was reading a proper temperature for extruder 2 but then I started smelling melting PEEK (not nice). I completely melted the PEEK where it joins to the JHead hot end.

REASON: the host was displaying extruder 1 temperature even though supposedly supposed to be displaying hot end 2 and was also sending power to both hot ends! It cost me a new barrel which is now ready to test again.

cheers,
Michael

[Eaglezsoar]

I just want to be clear here, I didn't post this to make a bitch fest....Hope I'm not coming across that way.

I really mostly want to prevent others from melting their hotends like I unfortunately did.

I have contacted them but have not heard back as of yet.

You're coming across as a user who has done as we all have done, we've all been in your shoes and guess what, this won't be the last time you will have catastrophic failure of something
no matter how careful you are. Actually it is good that this stuff happens and is documented, we all learn from them..... Carl

[aehM_Key]

In addition to mhackneys post: The Repetier software is inconsistent regarding the naming. Once the same extruder is called extruder 0 and once extruder 1. Makes me think about the quality of the whole software.. (but this is not part of this topic)

[cambo3d]

Maybe this manual needs a good look over for anymore errors.

In a few short weeks this manual has had over 3 changes.

I think someone at seemecnc needs to really sit down, read and assemble this machine per these instructions to see if they find anymore errors.

[geneb]

It was a volunteer effort that wasn't solicited by them at all. I wrote the manual because I couldn't find one.

Considering the number of errors vs the page count and the fact that it was the first printer I was even in the physical presence of, I think I did a pretty good job.

If you think you can do better, have at it. I'll wait.

g.

[Eaglezsoar]

It was a volunteer effort that wasn't solicited by them at all. I wrote the manual because I couldn't find one.

Considering the number of errors vs the page count and the fact that it was the first printer I was even in the physical presence of, I think I did a pretty good job.

If you think you can do better, have at it. I'll wait.

g.

I agree, instead of thanking geneb, now we have users who suggest the whole manual is suspect. Many machines were built from this manual with only a few issues which were corrected.
Are there more issues? Probably but nothing so detrimental as to be a big deal, this has been proven by how many users have completed their printers. I and many more on builders of the
Rostock thank geneb and I hope that he never quits writing these technical manuals. He does a damn good job but not everyone can be pleased.

[cambo3d]

Don't take what I said the wrong way, it would not hurt for someone at seemecnc to go back over and check for errors since this is the manual they are using.

I would hate for anyone else to follow these instructions and get another meltdown or some other problem not yet discovered.

you get all defensive about it, but its the truth. Are you gonna pay for his new hotend???

[Eaglezsoar]

Don't take what I said the wrong way, it would not hurt for someone at seemecnc to go back over and check for errors since this is the manual they are using.

I would hate for anyone else to follow these instructions and get another meltdown or some other problem not yet discovered.

you get all defensive about it, but its the truth. Are you gonna pay for his new hotend???

We just had a user in this thread indicate that he runs his hotend at 260C without any damage so how do you know that geneb's error in the instructions caused the loss of the hot end?
Perhaps the thermistor was loose, screwed up firmware etc. Why didn't everyone who followed these instructions end up with a melted hotend? To suggest that geneb should buy him a
new hot end is ludicrous to the 12th degree. I don't think we are taking anything the wrong way, you are trying to turn a minor issue into more than it is - a minor issue.